Super Familiar with The Wilsons
Amanda and Josh on marriage, family, relationships, and connecting with new friends and interesting people. New Episodes every week.
Familiar Wilsons Media produces content to bring people together. We are curious, hopeful, and try not to take ourselves too seriously - admittedly, with varying degrees of success.
Super Familiar with The Wilsons
Find us on instagram at instagram.com/superfamiliarwitthewilsons
and on Youtube
Contact us! familiarwilsons@gmail.com
Super Familiar with The Wilsons
Chris Barron: Behind Face Full of Cake - The Spin Doctors New Album
We chat with Chris Barron, lead singer of the Spin Doctors, about their new album "Face Full of Cake" and explore his journey through music, stagecraft, and discovering photography as a healing art form.
Check out the Spin Doctors' new album "Face Full of Cake" and let us know what you think at familiarwilsons@gmail.com
Super Familiar with The Wilsons
Find us on instagram at instagram.com/superfamiliarwitthewilsons
and on Youtube
Contact us! familiarwilsons@gmail.com
Super Familiar with The Wilsons
Find us on instagram at instagram.com/superfamiliarwitthewilsons
and on Youtube
Contact us! familiarwilsons@gmail.com
Familiar Wilson's Media Relationships are the story.
Speaker 2:You are made of meat, my friend, all the way down.
Speaker 1:The following podcast uses words like and and also. If you're not into any of that shit, then now's your chance Three, two, one run.
Speaker 2:I'm super familiar with the Wilsons Get it.
Speaker 3:Welcome to Super Familiar with the Wilsons. I'm Amanda.
Speaker 1:And I'm Josh Folks. We've got our interview with Chris Barron, lead singer of the Spin Doctors, who are releasing a new album this week. The new album is called Face Full of Cake. But first, amanda, we were just in a grocery store and I noticed something that you did not notice.
Speaker 3:How do you know? I didn't notice it. Oh, maybe you did notice it, I don't know. If I noticed it, what is it?
Speaker 1:You wear perfume, right, you like to smell good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like several different. I don't have like one scent. I like several different things. I don't wear them all at once, I just, depending on the whim of my day, I wear something different.
Speaker 1:Wow, we haven't even started and you're already wound up. Do you think it's better to have a neutral smell or a pleasant smell?
Speaker 3:I mean, a neutral smell is better than a bad smell, but a pleasant smell is better than a neutral smell. However, that is subjective, because some people like different types of fragrances.
Speaker 1:I think there's a universal smell that if you smelled like this smell, everyone would welcome you with open arms. And I found that guy today with the universal good smell.
Speaker 3:Did you welcome him with your open arms?
Speaker 1:I didn't, but I was really close. We were walking down an aisle and I smelled breakfast. Oh, oh, no, it was in the bookstore. No, that's when we were in the bookstore and I smelled breakfast. And now you probably saw this same guy. So a guy was wearing a shirt to a breakfast cafe. That will remain unnamed. I did not see this, so I smelled the smell first. I looked around like is someone cooking breakfast?
Speaker 3:We're not near him In the bookstore.
Speaker 1:In the bookstore and then I see the guy in that shirt and I'm like, well, surely it's that guy, because he, like, is a cook there or something. So I went and I walked by him and I did what I hope was a surreptitious no, oh, that's so, you are creepy.
Speaker 3:He's going home and he's telling his friends got it. I was in the bookstore today and some middle-aged bald man walked past me and be gentle sniffed just right when he got to me as hard as he could.
Speaker 1:I know, but it's not. I didn't sniff that hard. It's not like I went up to him and buried my nose in his cafe shirt, but he definitely reeked in the best possible way of breakfast. Now, what a strange and lovely thing to be. And that is to smell like breakfast, like a walking stack of pancakes, sizzling bacon wrapped up in a to-go bag and just scrumptious, and I can't think of anything better to taste to taste like.
Speaker 3:Did you taste this, gentlemen?
Speaker 1:I can't think of anything better to smell like it's like instantly grounding, like that smell that everyone loves.
Speaker 3:Did it just smell like maple, like syrup?
Speaker 1:No, like it was like the whole suite of smells oh it was just delightful. Honestly, I think smelling like breakfast should be a compliment okay you smell like breakfast. In other words, you bring joy and familiarity and the promise of a good morning and a full tummy to start the day. I just thought it was was great. I was so happy.
Speaker 3:I'm happy for you. I did not smell that. It's funny because I was just thinking like, what would you call that? What would that scent be called? Just breakfast?
Speaker 1:Oh, to breakfast, Like if you got the listen, some of the fragrances you've gotten. You know, fireplace, autumn and all that strange, weird, unconventional name.
Speaker 3:By the Fireside is the name of it, not Fireplace.
Speaker 1:But yes, whatever.
Speaker 3:Well, I have one that I get compliments on a lot, but when people say, what are you wearing, I don't like saying it because the name is just milk.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's, ooh God. I just instantly had a bad feeling in my mouth.
Speaker 3:I just don't like telling people. So it's this perfume brand called Commodity, not a sponsor. No, Commodity.
Speaker 1:Get in touch because Amanda thinks that you smell really good, although I got some advice on your naming. But go ahead.
Speaker 3:And they're not inexpensive. But I buy the small like the $15, like little small sampler size of it and I really like milk and I get a lot of compliments on milk. But I got their sampler and there's paper moss book and I think that's it. Paper moss book and milk are the ones I've had.
Speaker 1:Wait a second. Why do you need both paper and book?
Speaker 3:I don't know, it's just a little subtle difference.
Speaker 1:Jesus, okay, anyway, what is? Your favorite unconventional scent out there. Listeners, FamiliarWilson's at gmailcom, Get in touch with us. We did have the second game of Winthrop's soccer season today and you weren't there.
Speaker 3:You had to go look at some cows or some weird shit like that I went to the vet school open house because Muffy has decided that she is interested in eventually being a vet. So we went to the vet school open house because Muffy has decided that she is interested in eventually being a vet, so we went to the vet school open house.
Speaker 1:And to be clear, a veterinarian vet, not a veteran.
Speaker 3:Yes, we went to the veterinarian school.
Speaker 1:So we meaning me and Winthrop went to his game and I don't want to put too fine a point on it again, but his team is just not good, Just not good, Poor.
Speaker 3:Winthrop, thankfully Poor, all the kids.
Speaker 1:Well, I will say that of all the children, his name was called the most by the coach, and then even some of the parents are getting to know him just because he's always around the ball. Always he had three shots on goal that unfortunately went wide, but he's still trying and he is still not discouraged by the losing I know and I, even like the most diehard player, eventually gets worn down by losing, like the detroit lions, the la clippers, all these teams, you know they start out, you know, and everyone's morale is good.
Speaker 1:and then eventually, after years of losing it flags, I get that he's not to that point yet and he's still in that innocent, rose colored glasses, wrapped feeling of, oh, I just get to run around and kick things.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and he said last night. He said honestly, I don't care if we win or lose, which is great. And I don't ever say to him like, oh, I'm so sorry, you guys lost, but I'm just I worry about him just feeling defeated because no one else is trying as hard as him, or whatever. So but you said he's not there yet.
Speaker 1:So he's not there yet and I hope he never gets there. I hope he keeps that joy of life Now. Hopefully they'll turn it all around and you know he's getting all these shots on goal. Hopefully they'll connect at some point and the season will be saved and we don't have to worry about any of this.
Speaker 3:He wasn't upset that he missed the goals.
Speaker 1:I don't think so. All right, let's just keep it that way. But on to our conversation with Chris Barron. Now, this is going to be an unusual start to the conversation. It'll be, and maybe a res, because we just started chatting with him to begin with when we first got on the call, and then we just kind of bled into the interview part of it and it wasn't very graceful, so I'm just going to fade the conversation up, as we're railing against end-stage capitalism and then, go
Speaker 3:straight.
Speaker 1:But we talked about a whole host of things even beforehand. One note here he will refer to his brother passing away, and that's something that happened late in the year, last year. So our heart continues to go out for him as he deals with that. But the reason why we got on to talk with him is that they are releasing a new album, and by they, of course, I mean his band, the Spin Doctors, and I had a chance to listen to it because he sent it to us and it is pretty daggum good.
Speaker 1:My favorite song when the album does come out, it's the last song. It's called when you Got Turmoil in your Mind, and I like that one the best. And we got him on the phone to talk to him about his new album and we ended up talking to him about that, about his new hobby, black and white photo taking, about his propensity for high kicks on stage. So it was a. It was a wide ranging and great conversation. So enjoy our convo with Chris Barron, lead singer of the spin doctors. The systems aren't making the world a better place, are they? I did.
Speaker 2:She man I can't remember this comedian's name, but he was like talking about how like he was, like you know, definitely think capitalism's hurt more people than it's helped. I really think like it would be great if we could keep it going until I'm rich and I'm finally, I finally think I'm about to get rich. So, like, just give it like maybe four or five years and then we can have, you can have the meetings in my palace, whatever.
Speaker 3:Well, speaking of getting rich, let's talk about your new album.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, we're going to get so rich. Oh, and he goes, and he goes, and by palace I mean like a nice two bedroom.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right.
Speaker 2:That's right. That's right, yeah. And then I mean have you guys heard? I sent you guys the record, right.
Speaker 1:You did not. That would be lovely.
Speaker 2:Well, okay, I'm going to send you guys the link to the record, have you guys?
Speaker 1:heard the single. I have heard both singles. Cool record. Have you guys heard the single? I have heard both singles and my take is rock and roll. Heaven is real like. Totally reminds me of vintage you guys, and then still a gorilla feels real different to me in a good way, but it's like it feels yeah by the way, not trying to start any sort of beef, but I'm a little annoyed on your behalf at the article in Rolling Stone.
Speaker 2:What did they say? Oh are you breaking the news.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I'm breaking the news. Have you not read the article? What about Gorilla?
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh I was cool with that.
Speaker 1:Okay, like I said, I was annoyed on your behalf because it says Spin Doctors have a new song and it kind of rocks the surprisingly hard-hitting single blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, like they're surprised. Why are you surprised? I was like, can't you just unironically and unapologetically like something?
Speaker 2:And the answer is no. And those guys have kind of a storied history of, you know, liking some stuff that was really bad and hating stuff that was really good. You know, like they hated les zeppelin, they were really like mean to les zeppelin. Yeah, I didn't have a problem with that, I was psyched. I was psyched to get some coverage from rolling, I get it.
Speaker 2:I get it, but actually you know, to circle back to what you said, you know I always felt like we were as heavy as any of these bands out there. If you look at tunes of ours like refrigerator car, you know in our case they ended up being deeper cuts because that's not the way we were perceived. The tracks that have always been more forward have been the little miss capybara and the two princes. We We've got tunes like Shinbone, alley, bags of Dirt and a lot of material that is as heavy as anything these grunge guys ever did. It just wasn't like you know, you had to kind of know the band to know those tracks.
Speaker 2:Aaron, our drummer, early on, had this idea, this approach towards the material that was really brilliant and very musical. He was like we should have songs with different tonal landscapes, different rhythms and different tempos and different moods. We've always had like the ear candy stuff. We've always had, you know, stuff that was funky, stuff that was rock and roll and stuff that was heavy and stuff that was in like odd time signatures, stuff that was angry, stuff that was happy. It's just mostly like the stuff that we're best known for is like the happy rock and funky stuff. But if you listen to the whole albums you know there's plenty of like heavy shit on there. But we've never really been seen as a heavy band because the songs were really famous for I mean, that used to be like kind of a chip on my shoulder now I'm just like happy to still be around no, I get, I get that, but that's interesting though.
Speaker 1:So when you look at how you were I mean packaged, I guess looking back then you would say like reality was a lot different than reality, the spin doctors that that the label pushed, or that just radio pushed, or whatever.
Speaker 2:I think that's pretty accurate way of putting. You know we were packaged and marketed. You know we were on like sony in like the late 20th century, like sony music, you know band um. That being said, you know I think there's sort of an interesting commercial Phenomenon with spiners, because we were like a grassroots jam band that had, you know, two tremendous, tremendous hits. We were lucky to have these great, big hits and I think that's why we're something of a, you know, if I may say, say like household name at this point.
Speaker 2:But if we hadn't had those, it's interesting to think of, like how we might have been perceived in the long run because you know, we might have really ended up being sort of more like a road dog, a fish kind of. We are similar to fish. If you look at the aggregate of our material, you know there's a. There's a lot of variety in there. We're known for for the pop stuff but you know, anybody who, like you know, really listens to the entire albums comes out and sees us live. You know there's a lot of, there's a lot of other kinds of material.
Speaker 1:Which, by the way, having Phish's level of notoriety, I I mean that would be pretty good too.
Speaker 2:I feel like oh yeah, I mean those guys are. Those guys are huge and they have a different kind of thing. You know what I mean? Because we are known by many more people for a smaller percentage of what we do and they, they are known like their entirety of their Like. What they do is known to like quite a large number of people are. You know? I mean I really like.
Speaker 2:It's weird because people will be like yeah, I'm from Hungary and your song was huge there. I'm cool, I'm from Uruguay and your song was huge there. I just need people from all the round world over and they're like yeah, they were pounding. Your song to princess was the most played song, was huge there. I just need people from all the round world over and they're like yeah, they were pounding. Your song, for instance, was the most played song in the world on the radio in 1994. And it's been played on the radio 8 million times. 8 million plays on the radio. Something like, if you, if you, if you made them like-to-end, let's say that the song is three minutes long, which is really more like four minutes and eight seconds, I think is Two Princes. I mean it's decades, forty years or something like that that's a crazy way to think about it yeah Well as somebody who graduated high school in 1993, it's not been 40 years, friend.
Speaker 3:I refuse to believe that. So now I have to look up and see the runtime, because now I want to know if you know.
Speaker 1:Why would you doubt that? He wouldn't know. Come on now, don't, don't, don't. Don't. Do this to the guy. What are you? What's wrong with?
Speaker 2:you it could be a little Miss Capy wrong. Little Miss Capy wrong might be four minutes and eight seconds, I think. Is now no, I want to know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, see, this is what I'm telling you.
Speaker 1:Welcome to my marriage pal.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I fact check Josh all the time, it's fine.
Speaker 2:Oh no, it's fullness in 17 seconds.
Speaker 1:Oh, you know, we call that around this house, we call it a mansplaining. Now wait a second On Two Princes, though. Is that the album version or the radio cut that takes off part of the solo that I'm still salty about?
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, you're right, there is a radio cut. Yeah, the radio cut might be four I don't know four minutes and eight seconds. That would make sense.
Speaker 3:Sorry, I started this.
Speaker 2:Your listeners are like on the edge of their seats.
Speaker 1:now that's right, Don't worry, this didn't make the edit All right. So the new album.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean the new album. I'm really psyched about the new album. It's getting this really great reaction and I think it's an extremely entertaining album. And, to go to what we were talking about, it really falls into that. Aaron Comas designation of songs with different moods, different tonalities, different rhythms and different tempos, straight up like ear candy, like rock and roll heaven. We got some heavy stuff still a gorilla and and everything in between and some stuff beyond. You know, songs like I liked you better when your butt was big, which is pretty freaking hilarious, and um boombox, which is a single.
Speaker 2:As someone who has not heard this, I'm very excited about that song yeah, I just said I just sent josh the link to the record all so you guys can listen to the record. The way it was made is really kind of indicative of how the record came out. We worked at Jack Daly's studio in Asbury Park. We were going to stay at this great hotel down there called the Asbury. We're shooting the Boombox video down there on Monday and I'm staying at that hotel. But we went down there and I was doing dry january when we were making the record and I got there and I was like where's your fitness center? And they were like we don't have a fitness center, but our bar is open until 2 30 and I was like oh no, and I went out to the car. I was like, excuse me.
Speaker 2:I went out to the car and I found this other hotel like a half a mile away called asbury beach club, like twice the price of the hotel we're staying in, and they had a gym and it looked really nice and I was like, cool, I'll be right there the next morning. My room is beautiful, the gym was gorgeous, had like an avocado and wild mushroom, like toast, you know, for breakfast and and like got to the studio and told the guys like oh, it's famous other hotel. And like Aaron and Eric were like, wait, what, I want to stay there. Oh, and I called her. I called our manager and was like hey, you know, I'm moving to this more expensive hotel. Whatever, I'll pay the difference. And then the other guys were like no, I want to stay there too. So then I didn't end up having to pay because it just became part of the budget of the record, because we all stayed there and we were just like waking up in the morning in our like hotel robes and eating our like avocado toast and drinking like cappuccino.
Speaker 3:You're so rock star.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was really like it was so nice and we're basically like kind of living together. And then we'd all get in the car, we and we're basically like kind of living together, and then we'd all get in the car. We'd go to the studios like a half a mile away. A lot of my favorite albums were recorded like the band was all living in a house together or it was like some kind of like thing like that, like Air Studios in Montserrat or Led Zeppelin Records, where I think Led Zeppelin 3 maybe was recorded in this house in Wales and they're all just like living there. Exile on Main Street Was recorded at like Keith Richards' house In Elkox. So we were kind of like just living together and going to the studio. It was very insular. It was just the band and our engineer Did like an amazing job.
Speaker 2:And the other Huge factor was we were basically thinking that we were demoing these songs. We just went in. We're like cool, just to demo these songs and like like two days in we're like this shit sounds great, is this the record? And we're like I don't know man. And then finally, like after a couple, we're like I think we might be recording the record, but let's not say anything to our manager. So he came down at the end, was like guys, this sounds really good, we're like I think. So he's like yeah, and then he's like I think we didn't think of that. So you know, it was like a really low pressure kind of situation. We weren't expected to produce the record and we were enjoying the time, enjoying each other, and the record just got kind of a three wheeling, truthful, fun, engaged kind of vibe to it. It's getting this really great reaction, that's my spiel.
Speaker 1:That's your story. I can't wait to hear it, particularly the Big Butt song.
Speaker 3:Stop looking at my bottom. He just looked at my bottom when he said that it's not okay, he's profiling.
Speaker 2:He is profiling. I think you guys will little passive profiling stage Like profiling you for what. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, if you were to see her profile, will you please?
Speaker 3:stop talking about my bottom on this podcast. Let's talk about other things.
Speaker 1:Anyway, that's cool. It's interesting, though, at this time in your lives as a band and I truly don't know how it works in the music industry and all this, and that I just know that I hear about, or I used to hear about, a lot of times oh, we're getting a lot of pressure from the label to finish our record and this and that. Are you just beyond that, or does that not apply in your case? How does that work?
Speaker 2:Not in our case because we made this record and then got signed to Capital Records. We made this record because it did actually, it's interesting, it did like help us to fulfill a contractual obligation. So we did need to deliver a record to get like to finish an old publishing deal of ours. But it didn't have to be like a good record or a successful record and there was no real pressure on us. They didn't really care if we deliver a record or not, because you just want to keep being our publisher and we wanted to like kind of move on, yeah. So yeah, I mean in a sense we're beyond that, um, in a sense that there was like sort of a contractual obligation around this record, but it didn't have to be a good record. It was like the time was right and we hadn't made a record in a long time.
Speaker 2:You know, the guys had a lot of music kicking around. I had a lot of lyrics kicking around. I had some good songs kicking around. You know I wrote the music and lyrics to, um, rock and roll heaven and um, about four of the other songs on the album and then the rest of them are like co-written. So you know, still, a gorilla was a piece of music that aaron had and I wrote the lyrics to that, and so basically I read all the lyrics you know, and the guys, the guys compose some of the music and then some of the songs I write, um.
Speaker 2:so there's a lot of good material kind of kicking around and then some of the songs I write. So there's a lot of good material kind of kicking around and, like I said, we just stumbled into this great recording situation that was super low pressure and super high fun. That's a great recipe.
Speaker 1:I was going to say that's the rock and roll dream right there. So I got this question that I've wanted to ask you the last two times Ever since we came and saw you at the Vanilla Ice thing. So I got this question that I've wanted to ask you the last two times Ever since we came and saw you at the Vanilla Ice thing. You remember this Vanilla Ice 90s Fest.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:And I had texted you right after complimenting you on your stage kicks, on your high kicks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's funny because this Rolling Stone article makes a mention frontman Chris Barron's half-spoken vocals end up sounding an awful lot like david lee roth, and when I read that it clicked in that that your stage presence to me reminds me of across being mick jagger and and david lee roth, just because you're just all over the place and you're emoting, you know, along with the song yeah because there was there a lot of intention or thought and put into it?
Speaker 1:or are you just like a theater kid at heart and when you're on stage you want to just do all the things?
Speaker 2:Well, when I was a kid, the jump video, david Lee Roth, he did like a fan kick like that. Oh yeah In that video. But I actually like I forgot about that impressed with that move later on, when the band was first getting together, eric shankman, he just showed me he was 25, I was 20 and he played me a lot of records and he showed me a bunch of videos and was just sort of like we just were kind of getting caught up and you know, he knew a lot of stuff that I didn't know and he was sort of like all right, you need to know this, you need to know this. So he showed me a james brown video and james brown did the the fan kick the leg over the mic stand. And I saw that and I was like wait, a minute, I could, I can do that.
Speaker 2:And if I do that move, people are gonna be like wait, what you know like a big part of like a performance is basically the assertion like I can do something that you cannot do. You know you have to be doing stuff in the audience absolutely can't do. So most people would rather, you know, face machined on fire than like sing in public. You know, let alone like speak in public, let alone sing in public. You know, let alone like speak in public, let alone sing in public. So you know you're already like ahead of the game because you're singing in front of people. But if you add in something like a leg over the mic stand, people are going to be impressed and you're going to basically dominate the audience.
Speaker 1:There's like what you're doing is you're basically lifting your leg and peeing on the audience to claim your dominance over them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not too different, especially in New York city. You know, we were playing these clubs in New York city and the audience was like they were tough and they've seen everything and really you had to win them over on a lot of different levels. When I was coming up, we would talk about singers and we would talk about their singing. We'd talk about their songwriting. We'd also talk about their pattern Me and John Popper. We would talk about the older guys who were fronting bands around town. We would talk about their patter and that was a big deal. So you have to be able to talk to the audience. People had different styles but you had to be able to make them drop their guard and disarm them and some people did it in very aggressive kinds of ways and some people did it through humor. Some people were just kind of bizarre.
Speaker 2:I was always grounded as a kid so I didn't see a lot of bands. Bands would come through town and a lot of times I didn't get to see them. So I saw the ramones, I saw joey ramone, I saw the dead kennedys, so I saw jello biafra, saw a lot of hardcore bands. Um, I saw little shows but a lot of times like um, the who was on tour and the clash were opening and I was grounded. I didn't see that show. I didn't see like roger adultery, uh van halen, you know, come to town, I'd be grounded, I didn't see. You too, I didn't see any of the bands. I didn't. I never saw the stones until I was an adult, so I kind of had to make that.
Speaker 2:One of the reasons I'm so weird on stage is because I just had to make all this shit up because I really did many. Of course it wasn't youtube. Eric had some vhs's of like some stuff, like he had like a vhs of james brown. He also had this really cool vhs that somebody just made with a camcorder of like these guys in a little village in Cuba just playing like Cuban music, like a conga band. We used to watch that before gigs to get psyched up, you know. So I mean, I just like sorry, I like.
Speaker 3:I'm like half a beat behind, but that visual is really good.
Speaker 2:I know it was like that's what I'm talking about. It beat behind, but that visual is really good. I know it was like that's what I'm talking about. It was just like I knew the bands in the city. But I just, like you know, I really had to make a lot of this stuff up on the fly, so a lot of it just comes from. You know, later, on the leg of the mic stand, I remembered directly inspired by James Brown. But later on I remember like, oh shit, there was also that David Lee Roth video and that made a huge impression on me as a young person, but I wasn't thinking of that when I initially did it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love this story even more though. Yeah, that's some James Brown shit. I love that even more, but it's all stagecraft which, by the way, your wife Lindsay Nicole Chamicole chambers, is on broadway. You ever considered going on the boards, have you ever? Is that ever a conversation you've had? Would you ever do that?
Speaker 2:I was kind of like the shit hot actor in my high school there you go, if you do say so yourself a lot of front men, a lot of like lead singers. In their high school they played the stage manager and our our town by thornton wilder and I. I played the stage manager in our town by thornton wilder.
Speaker 2:You know I was kind of that kid in my high school. No, I yeah I would love to do some acting but it just kind of like never come my way. I co-wrote a musical called uh musical version of faust way back the end of the 90s and I was in that uh, but I haven't done too much acting. I'm totally I'd love to do some acting. I think I'd be really good. I always say like I'd like to be the guy in the movie you know who has like a couple of lines and you kind of like him and then he gets killed.
Speaker 3:I mean, at least you know your lane, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'd love to be that guy Like I don't know guys, I think this is a bad idea.
Speaker 1:And then he gets shot Brilliant.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, one last thing for before I let you go. What was it that you looked at a, at a non-digital camera, and you said this will be something that I'd probably be super into because, like your, your pictures are pretty cool and and you mentioned well, you've mentioned to me before, and you mentioned off air, when we're talking that you've taken classes yeah like what? What is it about still photography that captured your interest?
Speaker 2:well, my grandfather was a pretty accomplished amateur photographer when I was a kid. So he bought me a camera and I did photography when I was a kid. I wish I had some of the pictures that I took from back then, but I don't know where they are. Then in the 90s I I bought like a an old leica um that I picked up in a camera shop in portland at the beginning of the horde tour and I was taking some pictures back then. So I've had this what sustained interest.
Speaker 2:But then when my brother died, I just I was at a flea market and there was a guy who had a stand with a bunch of cameras and I saw this camera and I was like how much for the camera? For that one it was like 140 bucks. I was like cool, does it work? The guy's like yeah, and I just bought it and I started taking pictures and I've always had like kind of want to feel really bad. When I was young that I felt bad, which was a lot of the time, because you guys know I grew up in a really difficult situation. I turned to music, you know, but after decades of doing music, you know, I kind of like when I feel really bad. I turn kind of to something else. So you know, I saw this camera and creatively I've always just followed my nose and I was a pretty accomplished visual artist. In high school I did like ceramics and stuff like that and I've always had a good eye with a camera. Well, I did some photography, so I brought this camera, shot two rolls, got the pictures back and they like a couple of them came out. A lot of them were like shit and I was like these look like shit.
Speaker 2:And Lindsay was like why don't you take a class? And I was at the camera store in New York, eggmore Film, b&h. I was like, hey, you guys know where you can take some classes? They're like, yeah, the International Center of Photography. And I looked on their course thing and black and white film photography.
Speaker 2:One was like for beginners. She was like starting in like a week and I was like just enrolled. I was like honey, this class is like 500 bucks. She's like just do it. I was like okay, and I just went and immediately, like you know, we get to the class. And people are like, yeah, you did it all. It was like what, how can you do in photography? What made you want to do film photography and people were like, well, they're digital photography. I just wanted to find out, like what it's really all about, where the photography really comes from. And I was like I'm old. When I was a young person, this is all photography was. I found that it wasn't a distraction from being sad about my brother dying. It was like I could be a sad guy with a camera in my hand.
Speaker 2:It was like black and white photography is actually like kind of beautiful accompaniment to grief and sorrow and sadness and the images. You know, black and white photography are just kind of they really lend themselves to just being kind of sad as a great kind of expression. And you know it's in this class that we're like okay, now we're going to develop negatives and you know you have to like take the film out of the role in pitch darkness and get it onto this wheel that you're then going to like put into a tank and then put the chemicals on right. Um, and I was like, fuck, I'm going to take the pictures that I took, that I really want them to come out. And I got to like be in pitch darkness and get them onto this real you know what if I mess it up and what if I can't do it?
Speaker 2:And we, we had like dummy film, we're like doing it with our eyes closed in the light. And then it was like okay, we're gonna go in the dark and we're gonna do this. I turn the lights out and I was standing there in the pitch darkness and I just like opened up my film and like that thing. I'm like pitch darkness and the eyes are open. You can't see anything. And my shoulders went down. I just like took a deep breath and I was like, fuck, I love this. I love this. I just love being in the dark. I'm like not thinking about anything and not escaping anything. I'm not not thinking about anything you know?
Speaker 3:No, you were being present in your moment.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you, that's the perfect way of putting it the awareness of like the moment in the darkness, removing an entire sense. You're suddenly just like there's nothing to do except get the fucking film on the darkness, removing an entire sense. You're suddenly just like there's nothing to do except get the fucking film on the real. You know, and you have all the time in the world to do it. You suddenly realize like the lights are out, nobody can see, nobody's looking at you. Other people are having a hard time, other people are having an easy time. Now I'm alone in a room doing it, yeah or not, it or not. But in that moment, you know, I was just like it's in the dark, like doing this thing and it's fine, everything's going to be okay, I just love it.
Speaker 2:I just love it and I, over time, I spent decades like trying to like approach, like a kind of mastery of music, and from time to time I just let them do something. I'm not good at you know, but I'm like learning. I'm in like black away and I'm starting black and white photography. Three. Now my teacher is this guy, jim McGarvey, who's a legendary printer. He printed for Andy Leibovitz and he was like the in-house guy for Vanity Fair and it's this analog craft which I love. You know, it's something that, like people are people still going to be doing this in 50 years? I don't even know, but I'm still doing it, whether it's like a dumb, doomed art form or not, you know. But like just to talk to your listeners, you know, who are like creative, um want to do creative things. I've always had a lot of trust and things that I get obsessed with or get interested in, always like just followed my nose and it all started like I used to. You know, I do a lot of three writing. I would like what you know, the first record's called pocketbook kryptonite. Like at that time I was looking at my writing. I was like I had pocketbook kryptonite. I was looking at other things I'd written and they had pockets and I was like, oh, pockets. I'm always like writing about pockets. It's limited. Is that the only kind of metaphor I can make? Sometimes I've been really in disguise. I'm just like ugh, I suck, I only write about skies. It's the only thing I can write about. I'm a loser. It's super limited.
Speaker 2:And I was at the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam and I got to this one floor. It's a really interesting museum because it's got a lot of his primary works, but it's got a lot of secondary and tertiary works as well, like works that he's not that famous for. But look at this one floor, this whole room with these, like you know, dango, he's got that like kind of like those thick brushstrokes and it's like I look and there's this painting that's like green and brown, you know kind of lines, and I'm like what's this? And then look and it says Undergrowth. The title is Undergrowth. And I look at the whole room and I'm like, wow, this whole room has similar paintings. And I look at the title of the next one and it's like Undergrowth, and the next one is Undergrowth. I look, pretty much every picture in the room Is like undergrowth and I thought, hold on a minute.
Speaker 2:Vincent van Gogh Was like looking at the weird shit Growing underneath trees and painting it Again and again and again. Dude was obsessed with fucking Undergrowth. That's so odd and so weird, but he's Vincent van Gogh and it was going somewhere and that for me was like, ah, you know, whatever it is, you are like kind of obsessed with just fucking. Go with it. You know, dive in both feet, just see where it takes you, because that's what creativity is all about ah no, we're gonna leave it on that.
Speaker 1:Such good words. Thanks, man, you're always so generous with your time.
Speaker 2:Oh, you guys, you guys are the best. I uh, I'm so glad we, we uh, we have this little like ongoing conversation. All right, take it easy. I love you guys.
Speaker 1:All right, Amanda, that's all there is. There is no more. What do you think of that mess?
Speaker 3:I mean, I just really like Chris. He's a fascinating guy, but he's also just so kind and so genuine. So I'm grateful that he is willing to come on the podcast and chat, but I'm also grateful for, you know, all of the chatting we do around the recording and just feeling like he's a friend.
Speaker 1:So check out his new album, or the new album of his band Face Full of Cake, it's called and then, when you listen to it, drop us a line familiarwilsons at gmailcom and let us know what you think. All right, folks, until next week laugh, love, learn other things that start with L and even other letters, and enjoy your, your life. I really should write these down. I really should write my outros.
Speaker 3:You should think anyway, go be kind.
Speaker 1:Bye.
Speaker 3:Bye.
